Monday Night Magic #002 - Dr. No Pants and Tab Clear

00:00.00

tomgustafson

Hello and welcome. Everyone to my god 2 in a row episodes for the new Monday Night magic again this is Tom hopefully you're ah well, we're on audio so this is your startingly handsome host Tom gusses and and joining me is probably maybe the even more handsomer Brent. Join me for the podcast.

00:18.96

Brent

Hello I'm Brent. Thanks for introducing me Tom and I'm not as handsome as Tom.

00:21.95

tomgustafson

And handsome Brent we'll call him handsome brent all right? Well everyone again we're bringing you probably some magic news magic discussion and we'll dive off because we've already been talking about. Becoming a baby factor in sims 4 before starting this podcast but we actually have a little bit of magic news and also Bren and I are bright to spent a little bit more time about what we've been playing because I have a new obsession with we're we're gonna start calling it the garbage truck but blue white trash vehicles has been my.

00:57.58

Brent

It yes.

00:58.67

tomgustafson

Ah, great amount of fun but Brent should we should we just get through the tiny bit of magic news and I'd say let's you brought up that kind of cool Redit post where where they didn't really show any cards but that maybe some of the stuff is already out there. It stores which is kind of nuts.

01:17.55

Brent

Yeah, for the? Ah so the what the upcoming set streets of new Cappina Cappena I don't know how to pronounce it I guess um, that's it that'll be coming out right? October October April Twenty Eighth but that 1 paper? Yep well, that's.

01:24.82

tomgustafson

Penna.

01:29.80

tomgustafson

For ah well online, but it's coming out first in paper.

01:36.98

Brent

That's kind of that's the new new wave doing even though that's the old way right? didn't they originally do it that way anyways, and that's new new is the yeah oh that would be bad to do that route crystal crystal Pepsi. Oh.

01:41.99

tomgustafson

We're we're back to the yeah, the new new is the new old. It's old new coke at this point crystal oh god do you remember do you remember crystal Pepsi or clear tab that was what they had at the University Of Minnesota they had clear tab which was.

01:54.80

Brent

Oh no clear tab clear.

01:58.50

tomgustafson

Probably just directly gave me cancer I'm pretty sure because I was like I think normal tab there was that great urban myth that it gave you cancer then the crystal version clear tab had to be 10 times worse for me crystal. It was clear tab.

02:06.92

Brent

Oh no and I never heard Crystal Tab Crystal Pepsi I had some of the cryps. So Wow Clear tab. Wow Yeah Wow as.

02:14.10

tomgustafson

So it was like it was during the crystal Pepsi phase but they had clear tab. Maybe that was a midwest thing I don't know but we had clear tab because like you get like your takeout lunch like bag lunch at the at in the university and you get clear tab with it.

02:26.51

Brent

Yeah.

02:31.94

tomgustafson

And might date me a little bit there. But.

02:33.89

Brent

But yeah, that was that was ah crystal Pepsi was not anything that ever jumped out at me is like wow I'm sure disappointed. They stopped making this but.

02:42.46

tomgustafson

Yeah, that God that was a that was a great just yeah regganomics and in economies is like how how can we let's do you remember orbits those like the soda had like the little gelllatinous balls that would float in it I Guess there's actually a lot of science that went into developing those balls so that they would.

02:47.59

Brent

Health. You have the little. Yep Yep Yep! I Remember those.

03:01.92

tomgustafson

Like neutral buoyancy so they wouldn't float but they wouldn't sink that they would stay in the middle. But no one thought about well when I drink something do I want my mouth full of chewy bits and balls. No, you don't that is disgusting I appreciate this side there was it was like the Jurassic park like.

03:05.54

Brent

Um.

03:16.10

Brent

Ah, so they were. For should yeah they never never stopped for that. So yeah, it'll it'll be going back to the the old way. It'll be paper first and then the next week. It'll be online so that's ah, that's good news for people who want to get together and ah.

03:21.84

tomgustafson

There They they they want to know if they could. But if they should sort of thing.

03:39.15

Brent

Play magic in person like a gathering as part of the name says so hopefully that goes well and then the there there was ah a Reddit post shared where it looks like there are some pictures from a Facebook marketplace that looks like someone had. Already had possession of a box and a draft pack a 3 3 draft boosters together of streets of new Cappina Cappena is it Cappena Cappena so someone will correct I'm sure so copique.

04:08.34

tomgustafson

I'll say I'm gonna go with Cappena just because of the 2 ends and it's too close to capinis then to if we go the other way. No not all only mature adults would be able to avoid that.

04:16.10

Brent

Yeah, it's immature. That's why I would say kapina but okay Kapena so only mature adult. So ah, yeah, that's out there. That'll be coming out soon. So that that looks like that'll be fun and then Tom you were. Pretty hyped for what is the other announcement they came out for new magic products.

04:31.38

tomgustafson

Yeah, this I mean it's just literally a single sense at the bottom of this new cappena announcements. And yeah, there said there's gonna be more in the dungeon and dragons crossover I feel like we hadn't heard it. There was gonna be more outside of um ar. But yeah, it says dungeon dragons crossover commander set commander Legends Colon battle for Balder's gate is slated for release on June Tenth Twenty Twenty two so I just I liked d and d I guess I don't know if I necessarily love the set as much because we were time. Before the podcast that but I was so excited for that dungeon maccaque because I just thought in my mind there was so much you could do with delving into a dungeon I mean just the essence of roleplaying and dungeons and dragons and it seems like for a lot of us. It felt pretty flat. Ah with this.

05:22.89

Brent

Yeah, well is that something they could ah I know we just had that last year every couple years they could release as part of a commander product where they could just update right? because it's they're both wizards of the coast of products dungeons and dragons and magic. Something where they could just expand on that because it's how well did it sell did it sell well or ar.

05:45.44

tomgustafson

Um, I actually is I don't know how to I guess like check to the does wizards ever release like sales figures for I know sometimes you'll say like hey this you know we've sold more this time than any before but I feel like I don't remember anything specifically from.

05:50.90

Brent

That okay.

06:03.50

tomgustafson

Ah, forgotten realms.

06:05.75

Brent

See see if I find anything' do good friend Google according to rose water was one of the best selling sets ever. But I believe Mark Rose Water says that in every ah every set.

06:17.34

tomgustafson

And ah, ah, Vincent who has his full time job was fact checking me says that they just they just never do specific numbers which I guess I'm not too surprised with but I guess also to I guess I don't know with hasbro folk out. We want to get into the free wizard stuff. But it's. I be curious. It seems like hazro would like hard numbers since it feels like a wizards has been kind of supporting them as I was like as a a company in a lot of ways is being by far their most lucrative sort of arm I guess right now.

06:50.40

Brent

Yeah, they seem to be making a money hand over fist unless there's gonna be well. That's another topic unless that a possible takeover happens with ah Mr. Magic Johnny Magic there.

07:04.70

tomgustafson

Ah, yeah I I feel sort of bad because you know Johnny Magic you know, just ah, a big part of kind of magic history. Then if you guys remember there was also sort of that weird thing where he went on a date with someone and she was like a I can't what it was for. She was a reporter and like talked. Basically just made fun of him I was it like what the hell are you doing enough to Johnny Magic went to this to to the I guess reporter I don't know what else to call it. Yeah and then I feel like all that kind of good faith is being vaporized by a work I mean and so.

07:24.14

Brent

Yep, if. Yeah, yeah, the article.

07:40.47

tomgustafson

We all liked. We all need to make money to live and eat and stuff but working for hedge fund. Yeah so ah, ah yeah, and you're making money to make money. But then ah you know there's a I wish I should have written down but there's some people who were tweeting some where they kind of delved into.

07:44.62

Brent

Yeah, who what is.

07:59.33

tomgustafson

Through the website for this hedge fund kind of how they had ah what they had a specific name for the kind of investing they did god what was it not acceleration. It was an unusual activist something it was something some sort of weird term that they used for how they invested but. When they looked historically basically they would buy companies that were not cheap but undervalued and then sort of maximize that value then basically sell out like within a year so it wasn't like they're necessarily into the long-term health of whatever that item brand project was.

08:22.36

Brent

Is.

08:35.30

Brent

I think ah I think it's easy to look at it and be like oh John feful I'd be great for Matt that'd be great for the brand to have him come in and be on the board but he he's not theres johnny magic right? That was the nickname or my dislike. Yeah Jeny which yeah.

08:37.13

tomgustafson

Ah, with that.

08:48.13

tomgustafson

Giant Yeah giant magic kind of became the I guess the the the brand I Guess a little bit there.

08:54.70

Brent

The brain he he's not Johnny Magic then he's John finkel the hedge fund manager and he wants to make money. Yeah.

09:01.50

tomgustafson

Or is that that's that's the job I would say that is what you're supposed to be doing so it might be and that could be a you know a very tough position for him where if you know he really we assume he does love the game then you're like the decisions you're making are for the company. Not what you might.

09:18.52

Brent

52

09:19.70

tomgustafson

Personally think is actually good for the health of the game and be like that might kind of suck and then you might become the face base of the scapegoat for whatever happens like that's maybe not a great place to end up being with that say us I mean they'll keep making money. But yeah, that's a little concerning.

09:28.15

Brent

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

09:38.94

tomgustafson

Ah, but I am just hoping you know given to sort of underwhelming you know, going back to the dungeons and dragons is that I know we were talking a little bit before about how Alchemy has you know, tried to really juice up a lot of the dungeon-based cards just because in general they did seem like a very weak mechanic or.

09:50.96

Brent

Oh yeah.

09:57.40

tomgustafson

People did not utilize it much and a we only got three dungeons which I was kind of surprised that there was already a pretty limited number I Thought there'd be a little more diversity there and that most people just use those a small basically a small number of the pathways on there were kind of pretty much optimized.

10:05.45

Brent

If.

10:14.70

Brent

Yep.

10:16.99

tomgustafson

So I'm hoping with this commander thing that they can get you know, give me like a dungeon commander that and maybe some I want new dungeons. That's the biggest thing is give me new dungeons and maybe some more interesting things with the dungeon cards themselves because it was kind of unexcitic things like draw a card. You know, maybe gain a couple life.

10:33.69

Brent

Yep.

10:35.11

tomgustafson

The tomb of annihilation I thought was a little more interesting because it had a little bit more of the ah you had the pathway where you could basically get more negatives to try to get faster to get to the payout of the end like that I thought was nobody wanted to play with it. But that least was more interesting to me. So yeah, explore that type of thing or give me a double sided card like once I finish the done.

10:44.46

Brent

Yep, it's pretty cool.

10:55.30

tomgustafson

They love making those now you know have it flip over to something else and do something or have it be like a second you know like new game plus dungeon on the back. It seems like there's a lot of fun. You could have there.

11:06.97

Brent

Yeah I think it'll be interesting if they can expand it as more dungeons would be much much better I believe than just having the set 3 dungeons of which one of them got used far more than the other 2

11:21.45

tomgustafson

Exactly and and I guess yeah for yeah, we just not a whole lot knowing about New Capena they said it was you know but can be like a big metropolis. Um, which is kind of weird is because we're coming from kamigawa you know neon which to me is. I started playing cyberpunk kind of because of this set. It's like we're also like in you know Neo Tokyo at this point and ah, but ah looks like a different look does not look to be. You know, cyberpunk in any fashion at least for what I can see. But um. And in the one picture and again this is from the unofficial we don't know if it's real or not when it says bundle is this like the box. You'd get when you I haven't been to a in life preleae for years is this like what you'd get at a pre release is like this bundle box or is this like a different type of product that I'm just not recognizing.

12:11.82

Brent

It's It's a different product. You can get in the box stores where you can go and buy you can buy the draft pack there. So we'll have three draft or boosters together already.

12:14.70

tomgustafson

Okay, ah.

12:22.76

tomgustafson

Okay, okay, so that's the so 3 draft boosters is now if you look at that first picture of this there's that bigger box I guess at the top of the picture where it's it's like kind of up and down to me. It looks more like a booster box size but it says bundle on its.

12:38.93

Brent

You know see yeah.

12:41.54

tomgustafson

Um.

12:44.22

Brent

Yeah, that first one the first one there I'll see.

12:46.15

tomgustafson

Yeah I didn't know what that the because you could see sort of the the pack of 3 giraffe boosters in the bottom of the picture and then on the upper side to me. It's more booster box sized and they call it a bundle I didn't know if this is something I just haven't seen because I haven't been to a. In-person pre-release.

13:03.91

Brent

I I do not know what that one is that that's it seeing see this is all conjecture anyway, seeing that little if you go at the very top and kind of like the orange. Yeah Eight eight player or is it 8 boosters 8 you know.

13:07.80

tomgustafson

Okay.

13:13.87

tomgustafson

It says 8 players. Maybe oh guess could be boosters too. Okay, that.

13:22.12

Brent

So is this the I guess maybe this was way back to go back in the wayback machine. Remember they used to call them fat packs you get them. You'd have like couple boxes and you get that nice I like them. You know you get that book that would have all the cards in them so you could check off which ones you have and have little stories on the characters.

13:28.53

tomgustafson

Oh yeah.

13:41.60

Brent

This I believe is the the bundles replace that and I think now it comes with 8 set boosters because yeah, you can't can't call them ah fat pack. They got rid of from call them fat packs. So they're they're bundles.

13:46.33

tomgustafson

Set push. Okay, okay.

13:53.22

tomgustafson

Ah, theyre bundles I got have I Always like the name fat pack. But.

13:59.55

Brent

Fatpack was so good and they used to come as it way back. They would come with 2 of those nice boxes that you could store cards in and then the one for like ah I remember lowin block each box had separate art that so when you put it together. It looked like 1 giant piece of art. It was nice I don't know.

14:17.59

tomgustafson

And did were those ones ah with the fat packs also came with like little plastic dividers that you could use to like separate your cards in those boxes. Okay.

14:23.10

Brent

Way back? then? yeah I still have a bunch of them. Yep, they they used to come with those. They would have 6 of them in there so you could use those those are those were great and yep and then they got wait from that and then they went down to just a single box with 10 draft boosters.

14:31.26

tomgustafson

They had like nice art on him usually and I nice to remember those.

14:43.10

Brent

And then last set they switched it down to 8 set boosters because I mean generally if you're buying those, you're not drafting on many ways. So.

14:51.11

tomgustafson

Okay, yeah, so yeah, but what we'll get into it. The mtgo has kind of brought back my kind of love and actual participation in magic. So I'm I'm back into it now. It was good timing.

15:03.75

Brent

Yeah, yeah, so you need to ah the garbage truck deck you need to? ah you need to throw this out here. So everyone can hear about it and try and prepare as best they can for the onslaught.

15:17.70

tomgustafson

Yeah, so we'll talk about the garbage truck and then um, kind of like you said Brent you like you just you've been more in the areta side so you're kind of looking to maybe see where mgo is at and sort of kind of what's different. You know why? it's drawn me and maybe some other people recently. Ah back to mtgo where I had. Played it way back when I kind of first came out in the early days and kind of fell off of it a little bit but yeah trash vehicles is I guess I was just looking this is going to be related to the whole mtgo discussion. But I was looking for decks I could play that were 5 tickets or less for the deck. Because of these loan programs which are kind of amazing so I was just ah and ah part of this too came from saffron all of who and ah mtg goldfish will have sort of these like budget deck I guess series of articles and a lot of times those if you are cut out some of like the different types of ah. non- basic lands a lot of times under 5 tickets. So it was pretty easy. So I played some green white enchantment which was a lot of fun. But then I started looking at just the I love vehicles in general. They've been outside of the couple of bused ones like Smo orricopter and stuff not highly popular. Um. Distance see hey what could I play with this and in general it's been a ton of fun to make people really angry with a deck that's on average at best. But with as long as you're not playing mono black discard. It's a pretty good game against a lot of creature based dos all right now. Ah. And also just if we go back to? Ah I think a lot of older players love blink decks where you're you know, having cards basically get exiled and coming right back in so it activates their leaving basically exile effects and also they enter the battlefield effects. We will not get into my annoyance that phasing does not trigger this. Which I your tastes me beyond. no no end um so yeah, some of the cards here like ingenious Smith were you know it's a one one. Do you look at the top 4 cards you can pull out an artifact. But what really runs this deck though is I wanted to try to play search hacker me because it. Anytime a card comes into play for four man that does damage is how can I make it better than a flameton kau because that was one of the best kind of rinoke cards like that thing was just a house I mean a 4 2 for 4 that basically destroyed another creature was ah a little unfair.

17:39.33

Brent

Sure.

17:45.17

tomgustafson

Have a search hacker meck. It's a 4 mana artifact vehicle. It's actually a five five menace which I honestly sometimes forget. So it's a pretty good power but when it enters the battlefield it deals damage equal to twice the number of vehicles you control to a creature or planes walker which has been very helpful actually with this. So.

18:01.59

Brent

12

18:05.00

tomgustafson

Even if it's your only vehicle you're casting. You're doing at least 2 damage when it comes out but there is a huge number of blink effects right now. It's standard which was half the fun. Ah the other one that actually has made this probably deck work is circuit mender. It's a fairly unimpressive uncommon from neon.

18:10.17

Brent

Um.

18:21.43

Brent

Oh.

18:24.22

tomgustafson

Ah, 3 manages to 2 3 artifact creature. It's an insect when it enters the battlefields you get 2 life when it leaves the battlefield you you draw a card so when you blink it, you get 2 life on a card which is great touch. The spirit realm is I'll say I think my maybe 1 my new favorite cards because as sort of.

18:29.26

Brent

Exact.

18:42.93

tomgustafson

You can channel it for a blink effect or you can cast it as sort of like a cheap oblivion ring where you can basically remove a creatures. It's like 2 really useful abilities with this plaar incision. Another sort of blink effect a blue Nicolas gives it a plus one plus one. Ah.

18:47.20

Brent

The ring.

19:01.20

tomgustafson

Got the good boy. We got spirited companion. You know one one for a card and then the one I think it seems like it's gained the most play not even in trash is the reckoner bank vault which is sort of a 2 mana but card draw but eventually we'll pull up poop out a vehicle or sorry a pilot um and surprisingly good because that's.

19:11.90

Brent

Ah, pilot.

19:19.58

tomgustafson

Most expensive car in the decklarly is that and then the final one that kind of puts it all together is teleportation circle so it gives you sort of an end step blink effect that you can use it. It is an option This is up to one so you don't have to blink something if you don't want to. And this has led to a lot of rage quits and this has been my personal joy of this deck. Ah,, there's still a lot of rendering werewolves decks out there which is sort of the perfect Prey I found for this deck because they're fast but they're a little bit more midrange so control decks tend to do Well there. The Mono Green. Agrodexcks are still really hard to be because those decks are kind of ridiculous when they're literally casting it a turn to the the pack leader going into that God damnned old growth troll 3 manafort 4 tramled that basically can come back for free. It's kind of insane. But.

20:00.73

Brent

Ah yep, every time.

20:13.13

tomgustafson

Those decks are challenging so that's what I'm trying to figure out but basically you get a search hacker me I also have some other vehicles with the reckoner bank buster mobilizer me has also been amazing for turning on other vehicles as you're doing like 4 6 8 damage every time the thing blinks and you just kill it every creature that they put out.

20:23.45

Brent

Um.

20:32.30

tomgustafson

And eventually they stopped playing which I have really enjoyed yes, ah now I have ah with some recommendations from vincent and we'll talk about the I updated my loan program I think I'm up to about 8 tickets because I've got some better lands with deserted beach.

20:34.47

Brent

And all that for under 5 tickets. Well.

20:49.65

tomgustafson

And a couple of Nico Erais which in my mind and this I think comes from paper magic is it to me planes walkers are expensive I don't even look at them like I don't read the text as I know I will never have 1 um and just the weirdness of mtgo economies a lot of the not top tier ones are dirt cheap for. A lot of cards. So newco arrows is like less than 1 ticket and pretty fun because it gives creatures unblockable and then bounces them so it's kind of like another blink ick I effect and then then it just creates a whole buttload to these shards that use zachaized for cards which has been useful with them.

21:16.33

Brent

Like.

21:28.71

tomgustafson

So I've had a lot of fun I'm calling a trash vehicles for garbage truck. But it's been a lot of fun. What but for you though Brent or what are there any decks that you've been into or draft or anything that I know the first draft didn't go super well. But maybe it's improved.

21:35.42

Brent

Business path.

21:41.73

Brent

Yeah I did ah I did an in in-person draft ah did great there I did o three ah I've not I stuck through all the way stuck through all the way and o three and then I did ah my first ah arena draft.

21:50.40

tomgustafson

That is you stuck through all the way that's important I So I tell my kids.

22:01.62

Brent

For ah neon dynasty I went to I actually ended up going five 3 I was quite amazed with it. It was a green green white splash blue. So I guess kind of bant bantish ah green white seems ah pretty pretty pretty good.

22:14.40

tomgustafson

Okay.

22:20.97

Brent

Gonna complain about that. So yeah, that's ah that the that's ah that is all that I've drafted so far of the new set. But I'm ah I am enjoying it does seem like I said it before green white seems quite strong. There was a there's a deck I played against ah he cast a turn 2 1 in a green It's the 2 2 trample whenever you get. It's a rare method. Yes, comedy of transient and then proceeded to every turn their app and then it was roaring earth was the next turn which that's whenever you put land card po plus 1 plus one counter.

22:42.20

tomgustafson

Oh comedy of transience.

22:55.50

tomgustafson

Ah, okay.

22:56.71

Brent

And then started playing cheap enchantments and was just yeah I I didn't I didn't stand to share it was. It was a great congratulations to the my opponent for drafting that tech because it was beautiful I did not stand a chance. It was it was magnificent.

23:12.22

tomgustafson

Well in copy trades because I just because I was playing that budget standard version is I completely I think most most of us don't even see it is that has that extra clause where if an enchantment leaves the battlefield you can get it back to your hand from the graveyard I've had that save me a few times playing like discard is like I have.

23:17.80

Brent

Yeah, okay.

23:26.10

Brent

B yeah.

23:31.51

tomgustafson

Ah, they're all in the graveyard and they didn't even think about they killed 1 of minejas. It's like I can all back.

23:36.26

Brent

Yep, get it back and then you can cast it again for another plus one plus one encounter and economy me of transients and yeah it was that. Ah, but yeah, so far. It's been pretty good I've with a whopping ah two drafts under my belt. Ah I've enjoyed it so far. And I've ah ah been trying to get into mtg o but I was ah had some questions on the card loan program. So I figured you'd be the expert to go to Tom.

24:04.92

tomgustafson

Yeah I've been kind of diving into this because again just had some people tell me because this seems like there's been a lot of criticism about sort of the economy of empty G Arena just being kind of exploitative and maybe not the best for.

24:16.64

Brent

Oh yeah.

24:23.61

tomgustafson

Guess a lot of players outside of you're just drafting me because it's ah, a lot of concerns with card rarity and how to get those cards so I was kind of looking at other ways of playing. It's like well there's mtgo. It's the one that came out first. You should go check that out because I didn't really is I use scry fall they always list the card prices at the bottom. I started to s sinknc in as I'm looking at is like you know, a lot of them were way cheaper than they are in paper outside of some very rare exceptions in general drastically cheaper on mtgo so I started playing and I had somebody text me I think again, it was the saffron all of that he he had published some. Articles and videos about kind of getting back at mtg over the last within the last three months these have all come up. Um and also sharing about the loan program. So I've been I've been worked with cardharder I impart what biases they've supported Monday night magic way back when I was still hosting it. For years they supported it so've they've always been great I've always let card porter and they have what's called a loan program so you can you buy empty geo cards from them and and it's kind of amazing the whole bot ecosystem of mtgo where pretty much everything is done without talking to a real person like they have these. Fake players that can do transactions with card collections automatically with it and as we were kind of talking about through discord Brent is it's it's prison economy like you got to have something that drives. Yeah, what is your base unit of value. Mtgo basically since forever. It's been the event ticket and that's what you had to buy to get into events drafts everything and historically I guess I don't know international prices. They've been one us dollar in general is what they've always been and I think they still are so their inflation has not yet hit mtgoo that I've seen.

25:56.87

Brent

Okay.

26:15.16

tomgustafson

So event tickets became sort of the de facto currency. Ah for this and so pretty much all prices for mtgo cards are in usually tickets like you know this many tickets and like bitcoin they go down to point you can go down to basically pennies you know 1 1 one hundred s of tickets is what you can break it down to. Um, so the loan program is they you know they have this gigantic basically card pool and they say hey for certain amount of money or we'll talk about the free version is you can have basically checked out from us a certain value of cards at any given time and I think. First it didn't sound like much they said well hey for free to try it out. You can can do 5 tickets at a time when you start looking at the Mt Geo economy that covers actually quite a bit of stuff when a lot of cards are again I'll say pennies when you look at the cost so there you could actually. Get quite a few decks and I was playing Doran in a modern and getting quite a few wins with a well once like a four and a half ticket deck with this and having you know a fun with that. Ah, you don't own those cards eventually do have to return them if you want to get new cards. Um.

27:12.33

Brent

Um, oh.

27:25.77

tomgustafson

But I think for a lot of us that fits how we play magic once's what you get a pet deck that you keep forever and you're always kind of tweaking it lot of times you're building it I see Brett nodding is like you you build the deck you kind of play for a period of time new sets come out things change and you make a new deck or you want to try something different. Like well here I'm not I guess I'm wasting money because I'm renting them but I'm also not doing a big investment into a deck that is now going to kind of be maybe the the negative side of the mtg economy. Ah you know, not really worth much. You know, maybe for some of these older commons and things. So yeah, it's worked out really well. So i.

27:54.54

Brent

A.

28:03.17

tomgustafson

Dove in and card holder is really easy because they have basically their own event ticket. They call it a bot credit so you can purchase basically these credits for them that work with all of their I guess ecosystem or their economy so you don't have to go through Mtg and buy their event tickets. You can just buy their bot credits and you can pay for the loan. The loan program with those and if you since you're they call it cash. But if you pay with Paypal you get them for basically ¢92 on the dollar for these bo credits and so the way they work their loan program. You have your max mlv your max loan value which is the total number tickets. You can have out. At any given time in the amount that you pay. It's weekly the amount that you pay is 2.5% of that value. So in my case I'm currently at 40 ah 40 ticket which is pretty much the minimum that you can do 40 tickets comes out to be 1 ticket or one bot credit per week is what it comes out to be.

28:52.78

Brent

Okay.

29:01.18

tomgustafson

So in my mind I'm paying ¢92 a week to pretty much play any deck I that I in reality that I would ever like to play. You know you're gonna make occasional cuts because a certain land might be too expensive or something else. But I'm playing 98% of the cards that I want ah with this for and with least with the card holder version I know the. That man triggers has also has a loan program I just haven't used theirs is I just bought a bunch of buy credit and then they just automatically kind deduct it weekly from that so I don't really have to like break about paying it. It's it's's pretty It's pretty easy and.

29:31.97

Brent

Yeah.

29:37.84

tomgustafson

And also at least with the card orderer version is if I go onto their website and you know you can import a deck list from Mtgo and pull all those cards in you can directly check out and then set up paying you just change the dropdown to loan program and it basically just treat like you have that money in your account and then you can.

29:53.15

Brent

So oh no, you're Vincent actually that's a good question. So what happens if a card that you've already got on loan drastically increases in price.

29:56.14

tomgustafson

Oh go ahead.

30:02.48

tomgustafson

This I was trying to read through kind of the the fine print. Um, at least for what I could get through is the the cost to them is I Guess it's value to them is what you checked it out at I Guess again this is a loan.

30:15.89

Brent

Um, no.

30:20.41

tomgustafson

So ah, you can't sell those cards I Guess in many ways I think you could try but then you're gonna have to eventually return it and I think that's when you I guess it's like commodity trading. You could try to I Guess do it short and be like I want to sell it high and then buy it back lower later but you could hose yourself.

30:27.50

Brent

Turn that.

30:38.68

Brent

Yeah.

30:39.29

tomgustafson

I Guess in that point and so you know as actually I signed up for the paying program. There literally is like ah I'll call it like a short legal document that you sign I think that helps protect in those cases where they theoreticalically they they could maybe try to get the money out of you if you're doing some real shady shenanigans. There. So The answer is I think for 40 tickets I mean I guess you could get lucky in some sort of a speculation but that's probably not going to Happen. So I think it'd be a very rare case where you might get lucky but eventually have to return it if you ever stop the program so you could. Maybe lose money if you're really trying to sell and I guess do the stock life.

31:18.70

Brent

It seems like that might be more trouble than it's worth for those pennies of the dollar.

31:23.90

tomgustafson

Yes, I guess you could if you're buying your crazy red foil neon kami ga up I think that's like a one in a million packs but yeah but in general if you're just I'll say a kind of a typical I'll say probably a casual player. Pretty amazing value and and just ease.

31:44.22

Brent

That's that um for when you are renting these cards you can put in a decklist from mtgo it'll automatically like fill that and then boop shoot it to your account or whatever. What's the what's the turnaround on that. So let's say I have my deck. And I'm like you know what? I'm bored I'm winning too much with the garbage truck I got try something else and then I throw those back and then I put in another deck list for card hoarders is it are you looking at a few hours days

32:13.44

tomgustafson

You know, probably I'd say pride in total prior around 10 probably about 10 minutes probably 10 to 15 minutes total because they have quite a few bots so I'd say like the well's let's let's walk through it. We'll say I'm I'm getting my first deck and then we'll walk through getting a new deck. Um, so it's pretty slick. Um.

32:18.82

Brent

Okay. Okay, okay.

32:32.33

tomgustafson

You create a cow with carve order if you would if you like you can cause it's everything's based on your mtgo basically username or handle. So if you choose to it you can allow it to basically access your collection. So it knows what you have So if I pull a decklist that I got from somewhere else go and did you gofish somewhere.

32:37.55

Brent

And if.

32:43.33

Brent

Okay.

32:50.82

tomgustafson

Throw it in. You can have a there's one that says only only buy what I don't have so it'll actually automatically go through and take out the cards that you already have which I found you I don't have a ton but it's was useful So there I'd say check out you know Click my do with my loan program. Ah.

32:59.97

Brent

That's cool. Yeah, first.

33:08.87

tomgustafson

Usually you want to already be an mtgo you submit your order and then usually within about a couple minutes I think the longest I had was 5 minutes you'll get a trade request from one of their loan rental bots and it'll just say are you ready type? Yes, pops up the trade window. It has all the cards that were in that order. Um.

33:17.84

Brent

But.

33:28.70

tomgustafson

You take them you confirm the trade and you got the carts at that point and then if you want to how I ever give up trash vehicles I don't think but if I did want to sell my trash vehicle to you know, got junk cars is I go right through the cart holder website. They say there list of your orders or your loans. So right? there you can just say return return loan or return order. Ah so as you click it again. Use it within a couple minutes you'll get ah a trade request from a one of bots that just says hey these are the cards we want and as long as you have your whole collection visible. It will automatically pull them into the trade hit confirmed trade and the cards are returned. At that point. So I I found to be pretty I mean it. It'd be nice if it was even faster but I have found that 10 to 50 minute turn around to be acceptable. Um, the only I guess the one annoyance maybe with the system and I'd be curious how they maybe how the other ones do it is hey I get my visual. My original garbage truck deck and then I want to do some tweaks so in some ways you may end up having a bunch of little orders. So if we go back to do your final deck return. You can do multiple at a time but in some ways you might be doing multiple small returns like oh hey I wanted to get rid of a couple of circuit mendors and get a couple of.

34:30.56

Brent

Um, ah.

34:44.21

tomgustafson

Spare supplies. You know wherever my small tweak is each one of those is another transaction So in the end it can be a little annoying to kind of clean up your basic ah clear out your tab at that point. But I'm assuming the other services would have to be similar but maybe they've made that slightly.

34:54.11

Brent

Do.

35:03.52

tomgustafson

Just less annoying um with it. But that's been the I Guess the only thing I could see that might be irritating with them.

35:09.12

Brent

The actually that seems like ah speaking as a dad gamer that seems like ah a pretty decent setup especially for that price if it's looking at you're looking a dollar a week rental and then you're not having to go right? You're not having to draft to try and get these comments on comments the occasional where you're you're not.

35:17.35

tomgustafson

Um, yeah, like because.

35:28.19

Brent

Yes, you don't have them in your collection. That's a downside but time is also something that we pay for if we're limited finite this eliminates a lot of that time that ah ah, man, what's where I'm looking for where you're just ah trudging through trying to do it. You know to get the. To finish the task you hear a lot of like um mmos people are just going through. Yeah the gri. Yeah, it eliminates a lot of that grind and honestly for I understand everybody's finances are different but for a dollar a week to be able to you know, do something decent. Yeah, it might not be you know tier one.

35:48.78

tomgustafson

Like a grind almost like to it maybe a little bit.

36:06.65

Brent

Tier one deck there but it sounds like you're definitely having fun with this and I'm sure there's a lot of things that you can put together that are trash or janky or salt producers that you can still have fun with for a dollar a week I mean that's that seems worthwhile.

36:22.70

tomgustafson

Yeah, and and I and and I think especially if you kind of like to experiment with like maybe different combos and stuff like before there was always like do I really want to invest you know ten bucks to try out. You know some dumb janky combo in my mind that I think would be fun here. There's really no barrier be like fine I'll just load it out and if I don't like it. Send it back in in some ways I'm really not out anything by trying you know some stupid you know one one pinger deck that I think would be fun to play for a while but do I really want to spend you know the money not real I don't really need all these cards I think that's where it's perfect and and you kind of problem with kids I could see in my mind as.

36:49.85

Brent

1

37:00.33

tomgustafson

You know a couple of my kids are getting old enough where I think they could you know play. The game is well here you don't have to worry about having their own maybe account. We kind of have like our family plan of my loan program and then we can make a deck it can be there and then if they lose interest and stop playing. Um again I feel like I'm not really out.

37:09.67

Brent

Um, yeah.

37:19.96

tomgustafson

As much as I would be.

37:21.90

Brent

Yeah, it's like it's not ah, you don't physically have the car. You don't digitally have the cards. They're not yours you can't just walk away from the table with them. But that seems to be the biggest downside but that downside seems quite small compared to all the upsides of. So I Keep going to the the dollar a week which I know that's only for 40 tickets correct that's for.

37:42.46

tomgustafson

That's about 40 tickets. So again, it's yeah 2.5 you're paying weekly tickets or bot credits 2.5% of the total max value that you could have out.

37:47.24

Brent

Just percent. Yeah it and that just seems I dont just to me. It seems like it's something I'll love I'll ah do it for a dollar for a dollar I mean if you look I still will drive I still draft on arena but if you look at if you're going on to arena to purchase things where you know. You're trying to do the gems then gems to buy packs or buy the mastery pass or do these other things and magic gathering online with this card rental program. You can just go in there. You're doing it all the little the grinding the nidly pidly stuff is out of the way you just submit what you need based on your ticket limit. They boop. Shoot it out to you. It says about ten fifteen minutes which that doesn't seem to be a big hindrance either and now you can play. Yeah, you can experiment. You could do all those things.

38:32.20

tomgustafson

So I guess for me, it's as the closest I've gotten to what I thought was my dream for or empty Grena which was basically the subscription model where I pay twenty thirty forty bucks a month wherever they decided and you just have access to the card pool. You know that that's there.

38:40.33

Brent

Um, yes.

38:47.74

Brent

Um, yeah, yeah.

38:50.86

tomgustafson

Ah, to me I always seem like the ultimate if you were for trying to make this not a pay to-win game which in some ways clickable card games have been that since the beginning of time I mean kind of inherently Richard Garfield's plan to have the ah you know the power of cards be balanced by the just literally the physical availability of your and but local. Environment looked like it would work great in the 90 s but you know and now in the modern day internet. Everything else you know, not not going to work for it. So yeah to me I feel like I'm getting closer to that kind of dream with the the mtg kind of rental program.

39:18.49

Brent

It's yeah.

39:28.56

tomgustafson

And even though again, 40 tickets doesn't sound like much again with the economy of mtgo most cards are dirt cheap so you are going to be able to get quite a bit for that.

39:36.17

Brent

Um, yeah, yeah, that seems like it's a mix that it's I'll be the cheap dad seems like it's a good dad value.

39:44.46

tomgustafson

Oh at wall? Yeah well I'm go have my splurges but yeah and and Vincent. He also saved me about $60 this past couple weeks I am a dad gamer so you need to be able to pause and able to leave a game. That's why I like drafting an arena. As opposed to say mtgo. But I've never played a from soft game never played a souls game I heard so much hype about elder ring I like the videos looked cool I'm like maybe I'll try maybe I'm just a souls gamer that didn't know it. You know I'm the farmer that went to heaven and if there'd been a war I was going to be a general.

40:02.97

Brent

Yeah, and.

40:21.33

tomgustafson

Just he just never happens. He didn't know it ah but Vincent's like he's like I don't know. Are you sure I'm like I'm I'm a big boy gamer I could do this. He's like you can't pause it I'm like what the hell you mean you can't pauseit to it fits with what I was just being.

40:31.25

Brent

The.

40:39.71

tomgustafson

Blinders on just try and be like it looks cool I should try it. Probably not going to enjoy it. Probably not made for me I know it's amazing, but just not made for me so I took that I'll say theoretically save money and cyberpunk twenty seventy seven is now on sale for $30 on steam and I think epic game store.

40:56.20

Brent

Okay, first.

40:59.50

tomgustafson

Playing it on Pc. It seems like all the horrendous bugs have been largely ironed out that game seems pretty amazing. So far I'm having good fun put that thing on easy mode I'm just smoking fools all over the place. It's great.

41:11.83

Brent

Ah, what? what a class are you playing in cyberpunk.

41:16.10

tomgustafson

Yeah I I just the three five I went with the nomad I that just decided you're sort of like ah I described as being like a sort of like a cyber gypsy like they apparently live in clans like out outside of the big cities they like steal cars. It's kind of mad maish. It's kind of I got to feel that's kind of what drew me to it. But they still cars they live in clans they are kind of like raiding fuel depots I'm still early in somehow I am not in my clan anymore. So that's what's kind of drive me to New City kind of the the main city of the game so to kind of make my make my fortune there.

41:41.46

Brent

Um, off.

41:54.90

Brent

Vincent asked an important question where you gonna do with the other $30 that you saved since you bought it on sale.

41:56.52

tomgustafson

Well before last night I would ah saving it. You know it's now been spent on sims 4 expansion packs. Well beyond $30 um sure I think oh I'm saving it I'm going apologize this means I'm a poor.

42:04.88

Brent

If.

42:14.24

tomgustafson

I'm a poor human I'm crass I have no taste I Love the borderlands games I know they're not I know people in general hate them hate the comedy I like family guy I I can't help myself I I do appreciate sort of base humor I it does entertain me So I greatly enjoy Borderlines three just even just the gameplay.

42:17.28

Brent

Um, oh they're good.

42:34.10

tomgustafson

Just it was a good shooter. Ah so for I think I was at borderlines 2 or 3 they had this weird dlc pack where they had this inside the universe. They have a fictional um dd game called bunkers and badasses as well was called inside there so they actually had this dlc where. And some ways you were playing that like the characters were playing bunkers of badasses. But you were sort of like you know in d and d you're playing what's in your mind like I'm the warrior I'm going through and killing all the monsters here's it was more like a d and d esque roleplaying version of border la which was fun and now they're kind of sort of like. It's based on borderland 3 but the new version a fullfledged version of that called tiny tinas wonderlands I think comes out end of March I'm there's different classes. You know, like based ah like a stabble answer I'm like I'm sorry some of these things I kind of just find.

43:15.35

Brent

Oh okay.

43:28.64

tomgustafson

I find them humorous I'm sorry I'm a terrible human but I find it humorous so I'm saving my $30 to go towards that game in a bottom month because I know I will have a lot of fun.

43:38.92

Brent

That sounds that sounds like it's interesting I did like borderlands I've only played it a Few A Few Times but it does seem interesting.

43:45.73

tomgustafson

I you know I do enjoy a good shooter and that borderlines is a good shooter or if you want to save your thirty bucks is yeah throw that money towards Xbox game pass right now because that thing is just I don't even have an Xbox. I just play on pc and that thing is a ridiculous value, especially now I heard that guards of the galaxy is gonna be coming out on it I think this month that thing is just outrageous for all the stuff on there. Yeah Vincent was just saying Borderlines two is very but that was probably the most popular one I would have to kind of guess I guess i. Don't know the exact numbers I feel like I heard more about borderlands too. But yeah I just enjoyed playing borderland here was ah to me a fun shooter and that was a game about the other quote of a billion guns where you know the guns are the equipment they have shields of things but the guns come in different manufacturers different I guess additions or. Negatives to them and they also had a ah period time where they had some very you could get kind of unique weapons where they could kind of change your gameplay. So I liked it so Brent I was just saying the other option for the $30 is just keep getting Xbox game pass because that thing is nuts I don't even have an Xbox and.

44:56.74

Brent

Yes.

45:01.80

tomgustafson

It's getting a pc is now that all the game is pretty much come to pc guardians of the galaxy comes out this this month I was going to probably buy that one anyways because their way seemed to really like it $15 I I know they have to raise the price I don't see how that's going to be. It's probably not healthy for the for the video gam industry if that becomes dominant. But.

45:07.63

Brent

Very good. Yep yeah.

45:19.52

tomgustafson

Man as a consumer that is fifteen bucks well spent every month

45:21.98

Brent

Well, you might not be able to do it now since you've already had it. But there's a there's a hack with the game pass so before I just had xbox gold it was I think it was $60 a year things you could upgrade right? It let you upgrade to the game pass for a dollar for three months well

45:37.71

tomgustafson

Yes, you could bank those? Yeah a lot of people did I banked I think I got it like a year because I think I'd already signed up then I learned about the the the limphole so I was able to get I think I get an additional year in sleep.

45:40.57

Brent

It upgrades the entire. So I banked three years since spent so I okay all right? but I don't know. Okay, yeah, oh you yep all that was.

45:56.71

tomgustafson

But I say even at full price I still feel that thing is it because with kids it has minecraft. It has sims for the base. It has a lot of the games that they would want to play Anyways I was like man I played through Yakcuzo like a dragon never touched the yakus again that thing was one of the weirdest games I've ever played. But I really enjoyed it.

46:00.53

Brent

Yeah, yeah.

46:16.33

tomgustafson

Um, when I'm saving it? Yeah yeah, a yak Kuzabass who's in basically dressed up in a diaper because he's in into infantilism like this is quite the game that I'm playing right now and I had to beat him up as a toddler in a diaper like that's how he fought me was in his diaper and then I gained his trust.

46:28.81

Brent

Oh okay, that's.

46:35.12

tomgustafson

And but to maintain his trust I also had to wear the diaper so I had to join them. Ah yes, yeah, that is the pet crayfish One Yeah, that was one that they went more J and Pg where it was instead of being I guess real time combat. It's turn based combat with like a dragon.

46:36.00

Brent

Ah, was that the one where you had to save a pet crayfish to or is that Yes, Okay, yep, yep, Tech crayfish.

46:50.88

Brent

Oh okay, okay.

46:54.74

tomgustafson

That game is it's huge. It bonkers the weirdest stuff happens in that game that I've ever seen. But again good fun. Ah they have hatcher I mean they they put out the new Halo on there I I mean.

47:04.94

Brent

We yeah yeah, that tons of get I I do fall out 76 on there. No man sky is on there. So I play a no man sky. Ah just started playing lawn mowing simulator. So if anybody is looking for something new. They.

47:16.93

tomgustafson

Oh I Ah saw that that showed I that one apparently people love law more simulator.

47:23.47

Brent

Lawn mowing simulator and I'll be a dad. It is my kids think it's the dumbest thing in the world and I'm like you just don't understand sometimes after a day just ah I'm not that far. But yes you can you can and you have to choose different lawnmowers whether you want a side discharge a baggger.

47:28.49

tomgustafson

Can get the stripe It can you like stripe it and stuff like you would in real life in law more simulator. Um.

47:41.57

tomgustafson

Sweet.

47:42.85

Brent

Um, you can do you could do electric or petrol because it's I think it's bread based electric or petrol weedhacker and then you have a time limit for you know time limit for doing the lawn and a percent coverage. You don't want to you know turn too fast or you'll scalp.

47:47.34

tomgustafson

Okay.

48:00.69

Brent

I'm sure this will get mocked. That's fine I'm just telling you. It's It's a great you're You're not you don't have to think heavily playing lawn mowing simulator I'm not saying it's a dumb game. It's just you can just chill.

48:11.83

tomgustafson

Or I played probably more hours I will ever admit in cookie clicker and those types of like incremental games so I cannot I will not throw shade because what did you do I made a trillion bajillion cookies that's great use of your life. You know congratulations.

48:18.35

Brent

Cookie.

48:22.79

Brent

You have ti tick tick tick. Sometimes sometimes sometimes you just need that you just need that little that downtime and it doesn't have to be a first person shooter. It doesn't have to be a ah mmo or p g it doesn't me that you're just looking for something to be just you can maybe.

48:41.76

tomgustafson

Yeah, or vampire survivor I jumped on that bandwig and that game is also a great turn your mind off. Ah yeah, it's on. It's a steam early access created by a single developer. Ah, but basically they try to think I'll describe it. It's ah it's a.

48:47.28

Brent

Oh yeah, vampire survivor. Okay.

49:01.62

tomgustafson

Overhead 2 d view your character and all you do is control the character all of your attacks are basically on like a cooldown ah sort of system and basically you're just trying to survive. It's like wave horde mode. Um, but there's like unlocks and upgrades and you can like get secret weapons. It is.

49:12.15

Brent

Oh.

49:21.20

tomgustafson

Oddly compelling. It's like 3 or $4 and it's one of the most popular games on steam. So I think it got picked up by some big streamers and then it became you know, kind of no one but it is oddly satisfying I probably have played five six hours of that game total and you just do runs and there are there is some unlocks that you.

49:21.54

Brent

He yes.

49:39.29

tomgustafson

Gain over time that will make subsequent runs easier but it is and a lot of the graphics were not ripped out from Castle but basically purchased from like a castle like asset pack. So there's like a whip Holy water the boomerang all the weapons you think of from original castle're.

49:46.80

Brent

Is this is.

49:58.53

tomgustafson

And it's also and's ah, kind of like bullet health because eventually as you get also upgraded. There's just stuff enemies projectiles fire everywhere. It's just visual noise chaos at that point and it's good fun. So for for 3 or four bucks that one has been also a pretty good ah chillout game.

50:00.64

Brent

Everything everywhere.

50:18.40

tomgustafson

Not on game pass but I was a I was willing to spend the $4

50:21.30

Brent

Or you'd say that's an equivalent of one month of your card hoarder rental. So see that's all.

50:26.40

tomgustafson

Yes, so I'm I'm trying to make smart entertainment choices and also now since I have giga butt Ethernet I can just go hog while which is good fun.

50:34.26

Brent

O Giga ooh you're fancy gigabit.

50:37.85

tomgustafson

I It was literally cheaper than you know what they had for like basic This is a we have Xfinity Sorry comcast and yeah, they I didn't know they even brought into our neighborhood I was just searching because I was want to see if there's anything cheaper like well we have.

50:45.95

Brent

Okay.

50:56.64

tomgustafson

Fiber now I'm like okay I'm interested I can buy I can you want to rent our modem hell no I will buy my own modem I was able to do that. It's very easy to do your own modem and I'm sure why they make it so easy. But I did it and now I can download you know a 70 gig game.

51:00.48

Brent

No yep yeah.

51:14.98

tomgustafson

And 10 minutes while my kids are still watching their ipads and stuff and they can't even tell just like ah because Gabe nules is like give me all the bandwidth I'm like I will give you all my bandwidth so I can get that so I can get cyber punk Seventy Twenty seventy seven in like 8 minutes is beautiful.

51:34.17

Brent

That's it is a fast man that's fast geez.

51:37.96

tomgustafson

Yeah, so unfortunately Brent to Vincent I need to wrap because I actually do have to go to a meeting here shortly. But again we'll bring back. We'll probably have some video game talk each most weeks I've also started watching getting going through all the b movie asylum releases I've missed in the last couple of years so I'll be giving updates on that.

51:41.28

Brent

And if.

51:48.60

Brent

If sorry oh.

51:56.74

tomgustafson

Just watched planet dune pretty terrible. We'll give updates on that one almost done with it. But yeah Brent. Thank you for joining me Vincent. Thank you for providing a digital ai correction and backup. Um, yeah, join us hopefully every week for Monday night magic I think we're on a good. On a good pattern that we'll be able to keep it going I'm hoping kind of for the multiple years we did for the original because it's just good fun to chat? Um, ah, Brent all to get your Twitter handle at some point cause I don't know it. Ah by those you can.

52:18.18

Brent

The.

52:28.38

tomgustafson

Search for Monday night magic on basically any of the major podcasting networks. We have our own little site and captivate so you can also listen to the Rss feed there or I am psg reader on Twitter and I'll usually put stuff there too. But yeah, it's been fun brent by the next time we join. Hopefully you'll be on like the thousand ticket a month. Ah. And a time loan program just doing your hustle know. That's why that's why you get at Shre Farm that's the kids investment we'll sell those Christmas trees that was a terrible investment choice family that doesn't actually pay for college. No matter what you thought.

52:48.67

Brent

Yeah, kids don't need college.

52:56.55

Brent

So this is a great.

53:06.10

tomgustafson

But load of Christmas trees. Yeah topic for a different day topic for a different day along with naked mole rats. We'll also talk about them another day all right? Thank you for joining me. We'll talk to you guys later.

53:08.17

Brent

Good stories. Excellent. Thank you Talent Take care.